The concept of conflicting access needs is a thing. IDK. That seems like what's lacking in today's discourse.

Sometimes a hard of hearing person needs things to be to louder

And a sensory-disorder person needs things to be quieter

It's not "which volume is the ableist one" it's that these access needs conflict... So what are you gonna do about it?

Do apply to anything

@shel To me, this sort of thing illustrates the importance of institutions being able to react to the needs of stakeholders in a given time and place. Is the person who needs things louder not here today? Okay, let's accommodate the people who are. They're both here? Can we use a sound loop to feed a clear signal to amplified headphones for the people who need it while keeping the loudspeakers low? Maybe one cares less about today's program than the other.

Needs are hyperlocal. Can't we ask?

@drifa yeah that's kinda The Thing

Conflicting access needs is never easy and takes creativity. It's not about one person's needs being ableist to want to have met. But like... Sometimes the conflict is irreconcilable and the people just need separate spaces. Ideally we should avoid that but sometimes that's what happens too and it's Ok (common in cohabitation situations, sometimes two people just shouldn't be roommates)

@drifa when we're designing a space that potentially anyone could be in, that's when you need to get really creative. At my shul, the audio levels thing was addressed by having headphones for people with hearing difficulties which play an amplified audio.

@shel I feel like many, if not most people. given the choice, are happy to be flexible like this to help accommodate everyone. I dunno, I can be a bit idealistic sometimes.

As to the tech, "sound loop" might not be the right term, although I thought loop was in it, but I remember there being a standard system for feeding an audio signal to amplifier/headphone rigs the the user wears. The advantage over hearing aid being that the sound comes from the intended source and so has less room noise.

@drifa yes such a system exists idk what it's technically called but we usually call them like hearing assistance headsets available.

Unfortunately, it's my experience, that people are happy to accommodate until it requires them actually doing something or compromising something and when it comes to Internet Discourse especially on Mastodon there tends to be... Hostility to anyone having needs that conflict...

@shel thats why its so important to create options and customizable experiences for the user

@masklayer @shel I mean, I'm a musician, and many kinds of ambient noise fucks with me hard enough that noise-cancelling headphones and earplugs while sleeping are sort of my best friend, so

@stackingstones @masklayer i have a chronic musco-skeletal disorder that makes most things more difficult for me than able-bodied people, it doesn't make those things necessarily ableist. there's a difference between something causing problems for disabled ppl and that thing being ableist. ableism is when it is systemically present.

@shel @masklayer ok, i see what you're saying now. this seems sort of pedantic, but i get the distinction. the denial of accessible accomodations is ableist, the sound itself isn't ableist, and what is workable for one person won't be for another, i get that

i don't think systemically = "universal", though. things can be systemically oppressive in specific contexts, that's why biopower is a thing, and why racism has different contexts. ableism is no different.

@shel @masklayer and if there's conflicting needs, that doesn't mean "ok, we're all screwed, so much for that", either. that's why community organizing and collective decision making matter.

also, there is a cultural tendency to think getting needs met = my needs alone, but that's not just on the internet, and isn't a universal, either

@stackingstones @masklayer my original post is

"So then the question is, what are we going to do about it"

i.e. instead of asking "Are loud sounds more ableist than quiet sounds" the question should be "how are we going to address this conflict in access needs, is there a compromise, is there a way to make everyone happy"

@shel some places have dedicated sensory-friendly times, so it's something, at least. even that's not universal, though -- some movie theaters raise the lights, which can be its own sensory trigger

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